Newsletter 3/2003


Interview with Wim van Dullemen in the German magazine SEIN

read the interview in german >>

GURDJIEFF’S MOVEMENTS: A TASTE OF THE SACRED
A translation of an interview with Wim van Dullemen, originally published in German in the September 2003 issue of the Berlin monthly ‘Sein’

Sein: What are ‘Movements‘ and who was Gurdjieff?
WvD: Gurdjieff was an esoteric teacher, of Greek-Armenian parentage. While still a young man, a thirst for a special kind of knowledge, which he believed existed somewhere on earth, drove him into the most inaccessible areas of the Orient, on a search that was to last for more than twenty years. When he died, in Paris in 1949, he left a legacy of unique diversity. In addition to three books, he composed over 200 musical pieces and created an intriguing body of some 250 dances called Movements. No doubt these Movements formed a spearhead of his Teaching, for he wanted to be known simply as ‘a teacher of dances’.
For many, their first impression of the Movements will be the ‘never-before-seen’, because they are different from anything known in the world of dance so far. They are called ‘sacred’ because of their impact on our psychological state and awareness.

Sein: In what way do these Movements differ from all kinds of other body-awareness techniques offered nowadays, like Hatha Yoga, Qi Gong and Tai Chi?
WvD: What Movements have in common with these techniques is that they also are a discipline requiring effort and dedication. The differences, however, are great, and the first that comes to mind is the wonderful music that accompanies them. This makes them much more ‘dance’-like, but they differ from ballet in this sense that, rather than the individual’s subjective personality these Movements express a more objective approach towards the laws that govern life.

Sein: What do you mean with ‘objective’ and why would Gurdjieff be more objective than masters of modern dance like Bejart or Graham?
WvD: Without denying the tremendous value of these pioneers of modern ballet, one could say that the Movements are more directed towards an inner search. While doing Movements, one has to submit oneself to unusual, mathematical positions. This liberates one from one’s habits and society’s conditioning, and, on the other hand, these positions illustrate, like a new kind of language, a possible psychological evolution. This language, in spite of its mathematical precision, can be deeply felt. A new balance comes about in the dancer; the music, the gestures and his inner aspirations become one and it is as if he enters a new place, one without walls, without time....it is as if he tastes the sacred....a renewal of the promise made to man that we can renew ourselves...can be born again.

Sein: How come these Movements, created more than fifty years ago, are so little known and where can they be seen, where can one study them?
WvD: Because, after his death, Gurdjieff‘s pupils made a deliberate effort to keep them secret , and this has been so effective that only recently the public has some access to them. We have established a ‘Movements Foundation’, an independent organisation, with the aim of stimulating this process. For example, together with Christiane Macketanz, my companion in life and the mother of our son Sasja, and with technical assistance of Martin Permantier, we recently produced an interactive CD-ROM for doing Movements. Public performances remain, I have to admit, rare.
In the demonstration, 20 September, Gemeindehaus LuisenKirche (Berlin), Christiane will show a variety of Movements. And, for the benefit of our classes in Berlin, as well as for individual training, Christiane and I are working on the creation of a new pedagogical structure for teaching all elements needed for learning Movements.

Sein: Could you mention some of these elements?
Quietness, relaxation, awareness of one’s body, establishing harmony between mind, feeling and motion, and, of course, knowing them in full historical detail.
Let me summarise: all ancient cultures relate dance to the manifestations of God and Creation. The Movements can be seen as an ultimate effort by Gurdjieff to reinstall in the lives of people a new ritual to stimulate and assist the transformation of individual people and of society as a whole.

Wim van Dullemen, 1942, pupil of the Dutch composer Wijdeveld, is one of the first musicians to perform the music of Gurdjieff in concert halls of international importance. Five CD’s of his music have been published and he is active as a teacher of Movements in Amsterdam and in Berlin.

Christiane Macketanz, 1959, studied with a student of Mary Wigman and later learned step dance and modern dance. As performer and teacher of Movements she has been working with Wim van Dullemen for the last seven years.